January 2005

February 1, 2005

Dear Family and Friends,

Last month was primarily spent in California with my family and friends. My buddy Matt Vessey and I went to the San Diego Mormon Battalion Center one day, and took the tour. I was wearing my "MormonInfo.org" shirt and I told the tour guide that I was from Salt Lake City, and he assumed I was LDS. After the tour, when I told him I wasn't, he wanted to know if I read the Book of Mormon and if I prayed about it (LDS usually assume that if people would only sincerely read the Book of Mormon and pray about it, they would of course become LDS). He was surprised when I told him that I read and prayed sincerely about all their scriptures, and that God told me it was all false and what I was already believing was true. I requested to have the LDS missionaries visit me and bring me a video, and I was actually surprised that they showed up the day after I got back from CA. On the "investigator record" that I took with the video they offered me, it said, "Mr. Sivulka said after reading the BOM he prayed & God told him it was false. We think he sponsers [sic] mormoninfo.org. An anti". I've had different LDS missionaries over to my place before, so I'm surprised these particular missionaries (Elders Smith and Reese) still came.

I've met with them twice now, and they are planning on coming back again this Saturday. On our first meeting, I spent about 2 good hours with them. We talked about how we determine truth, the priesthood, the nature of God, the impossibility of LDS salvation, and the real grace of God in the sufficiency of His sacrifice. Elder Smith said a couple times, in perhaps a tongue in cheek way but perhaps also in a very somber way, "You're right; what we're believing in is false." I invited them back to watch the DVD of Ravi Zacharias, who spoke in their own tabernacle last November. They watched half of it, and then had to go to another appointment.

After the Mormon Battalion Center, Matt and I went to advertise MormonInfo.org and JosephLied.com, and pass literature out in front of the San Diego LDS Temple. I had such a good time that I came back later to spend more time. As a result, I got a handful of tracts out and a couple negative e-mails that I stuck in the "MAILBAG" below (I also got some incredibly encouraging e-mails, so please don't overlook these).

On another day, I spent a Sunday morning advertising and passing out literature in front of the Escondido LDS Stake Center. This was quite unlike ministry in Utah, since most of the people that saw me were going to other Christian churches and they were quite complimentary. One of those Christians was a former LDS as of 3 and a half years ago. Another Christian couple told me that their granddaughter had recently become LDS due to her boyfriend. I also had a nice chat with an LDS kid, who came out to find out what I was up to (he even took my literature).

Later that night I got to share the Lord with Arne, an elderly LDS man. I was invited back in December, while I was in Utah, to share the Lord with this LDS friend of a Christian brother named Roger Williams. Roger called my former director, Kurt Van Gorden, and Kurt referred Roger to me. Roger and Arne live in a retirement center in Vista, CA, which is the city where my parents live. I had about 2 and a half hours with them, but sadly Arne was too addicted to his experiences to see straight. He was a real nice guy, and we had a nice chat. At the end of our time I prayed out loud that God would touch his heart, and give him ears to hear and eyes to see.

For a devotional, I've been reading through A Table in the Presence (W/Thomas Nelson) by Lt. Carey Cash. This is an excellent account by a Marine chaplain of God's provision during the invasion of Iraq. At one point, Cash wrote,

A quote form an unknown source, printed in the Marine Corps training manual, says, 'The nation that makes too great a distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have scholars who are cowards and warriors who are fools.' Lappe was neither a coward nor a fool. On more than one occasion, he and I handed back and forth articles from popular religious or political journals discussing the moral and ethical underpinnings of just war. Perhaps this quieter intellectual side of him that gave him such an air of confidence. He seemed to understand the 'why' of the Marine Corps' mission, as well as what we were about to do in Iraq. He was thus able to fully invest himself in the cause (49-50).

Now how much more should this be heeded in the spiritual realm? How am I able to fully invest myself in the cause of converting the state of Utah, and LDS more generally? Because not only do I value all the various ways to minister the kingdom of God to others, I also value study. I submit that we need more scholar-warriors in the Christian Faith. And why am I so confident that I'll be effective in the work the Lord has for me? Lt. Cash put it well: "It has always been true: when the faithful fight the spiritual battle in prayer, those shouldering the burden of combat are given the strength to prevail" (Cash, 161).

Thank you for every prayer said on my behalf, and for every check written on my behalf.

Rob at the Mormon Battalion Center

Rob at the San Diego Temple

Rob advertising to freeway traffic

Rob and friends with Hugh Hewitt after one of his talks at Hope Chapel, Hermosa Beach, CA

If you'd like to help us advertise, we've got new bumper
stickers. Just request them with your donation.

Forgiven,

Rob
Rob@Mormon Info.org
Mormon Info

****PRAYER LIST****

"More things are wrought by prayer than this world ever knows of" (Alfred Lord Tennyson).

For more salvations
For those that are coming out of the LDS Church and/or those who have recently committed themselves to the real Christ
For God to move more people to do street ministry downtown
For Utah churches and individual Christians to support each other's various ministries
For financial provision
For the ability to get my rough draft comprehensive done soon
For God to use my web site
For love, protection, and wisdom as I minister

****MAILBAG****

[The following was forwarded to me from Sandra Tanner at the Utah Lighthouse Ministry:] Hello, Several years ago someone gave me a Track "Six things they won't tell you in the Temple Square". I read it when I got home as the brothers I was with thought it was trash. I came to Jesus Christ this year and I think the seed you planted in this message helped me find my way to salvation. I found the track in the book I was carrying that day. I was clearing out my library of junk and found the book. I could not through out the paper you so patiently handed out that day. I will never know who handed this to me. All I know is the seed was planted and held and studied until I finally left the church and then started looking for the real truth. I go to Calvary Chapel here in Reno and am well founded in the Bible and being born again is a joy and a burden at times. I'm sorry for rambling on. I really wanted to give you thanks and my prayers in your service to God. I am doing the same now. I have several Mormons at work and they really don't know how to handle someone from the "inside" who can answer every lie they hold. So far every time they get stuck they bring out the real bible (NKJV) and find the truth is bigger than all of us. My actual dealing with all Mormons goes right to the heart of the faith. Joseph Smith, he is factually and biblically a false prophet and nothing he said came true and when you study the bible and his history. It shows the faith of the LDS church is void.

From my heart thank you whoever you were who stood out on the street and boldly gave me this simple piece of paper that has brought me to the truth. Not exactly the way I would have thought God would have done things, but accepted just the same. Thank you and May God Bless all in his service working as you do. Bob Rea [For a more detailed statement, see Bob's testimony.]

[I responded:] Hi Bob, Wow! I just got this forwarded to me from the Utah Lighthouse Ministry, since I was the one who wrote the tract [now entitled "Seven Differences between Mormonism and Christianity"] and probably the one who gave it to you. Thanks so much for writing and making my day! You are more than welcome for the tract! God is so gracious to let me get this from you this side of heaven. I'm reminded how many others will not write, yet their lives are brand new in Christ, and I won't find out about it until I get to heaven.

I'm also thankful for your note, since, believe it or not, there are even a lot of Christians who don't like me doing any type of ministry in front of the Temple. Too many Christians, if they do any type of ministry, invest much of their lives cultivating relationships in hopes that they'll see conversions with their handful of friends. Though we should be doing this, I submit the problem becomes when we rule out other modes of evangelism that would allow us to have more of an impact on this world.

...Finally, welcome to the family of God! It's about time, but better late than never. ;>P Your bro,

I got around to reading the literature I received from you in Salt Lake while ago. I originally wanted to write you back to point out the errors in your pamphlet. However, I decided that if you put out a pamphlet of this quality in the first place, you probably would not have the intellectual capacity to understand the arguments anyway. I have however, known many Mormons in my life. Regardless of whether or not I agree with them or not, at least they put some education and or study into their teachings. Thinking before acting is usually a good policy. Common sense never hurts either.

Wow, how pathetic you having nothing better to do than bash the mormon religion, I have found them to be very good individuals. I don't think i will ever understand why others have nothing better to do with there time, I guess the mormon religion is true, if your so set on proving it otherwise. Get over it already, LOL!

Honestly, i think your pushing the envelope. Im from California and i have mormon friends, i dont see anything wrong with them. They are great people, never had any problem with them. personally i think you need a life, maybe a wife, or some sort of action. Man not trying to hurt feeling bro, but if you have a website totally dedicated to "expose mormons" your weird. How bout you love thy neigbhor and leave them alone. You know at the end you could be wrong. What if in the time of armagedon and the second coming and all that, Jews become the "saved" people, or Jehova's witnesses. we'll just have to wait and watch, what if we all get saved? I call my self a christian and i would call mormons christians too cuz they and me and i think you also believe in Christ. Have you met God how can you say that he tells you that mormons are bad? Are you "the chossen one"? Now if Jesus came to earth again would he be white or black? What do you think, is he white or black, etc? How come God talks to you am i evil and am i going to hell? How can u be so sure? Have you seen the actual bible "the original one"? wasnt the bible a record of many records that prophets and scribes of ancient times wrote down and in the process we lost some of it, and translating it would be hard. what about the dead sea scrolls? should they be an add on to the bible? i hope you can answer my question cuz i am confused, sincerely a very concerned universal thinker.

[I responded:] Ya, they are good people, and I have a lot of friends who are LDS, but they still need the truth before they go to hell. I love them enough to tell them the truth. If I didn't, then I'd just let them go to hell. Do you really think Jesus and His prophets and apostles just left people alone? Why were most of them martyred?

You obviously don't know Jesus and how the LDS Church is a cult that teaches a false God. When you become a student of Jesus, He'll change your heart and give you desires to save the lost. Please give him your life and trust Him alone to take your sins away or you yourself go to hell. He will give you real life, and a desire for His word.

Please read "Can The Bible Be Trusted?". It discusses your problems with the Bible, and I think it will answer your questions, so that you can know how trustworthy the Bible is. I know it's God's word, and He teaches us what He is like from it and how we are to live. We are also taught from science and philosophy that God exists, and He exists in a specific way that is quite different from what the LDS teach. Please check the FAQ out, and we can talk more about it if you'd like.

To tell you the truth, I can't believe that I am writing this letter. I am a born again Christian, raised Methodist, but am not currently active in any church. My husband and I became involved with a couple belonging to the LDS, and as our relationship grew, I began to investigate their beliefs. What it has done has reminded me of what I believe in, even though I have been denying it for a while and I haven't been following the teachings of the bible. I am now, through various experiences and studies, am beginning to see that the Gospels really do make sense and that the Book of Mormon is just a fairy tale. After much introspect and prayer, I feel that I am being called to testify to people of the Mormon church. I have no idea where to start, but I came across your website. When I saw the work that you are doing, I knew in my heart that it is my calling. Please provide me with any information that can help me get started. May God Bless You...

Dear Rob thank you for all the info you put out on your sight. The dialoge [Mike Norton] had with that fellow who wanted [him] to be "silent" was awsome. As a hispanic I feel my heratige has been hijacked by the B.O.M. They are saying Ime a lamonite from Israel. Ime being ripped off by the mormons. P.S. forgive my spelling. Love

THis current week... I am getting some signs that I should do some witnessing really soon. ...I know I have been bringing this up for over a year now, and putting it off, but this weekend is going to be it. I wish I could say I could bring up every piece of biblical scripture that could be possibly used to witness, but I have faith God will take care of a lot of things when I go out.

...Basically, I have the double-sided sign with your website and JosephLied plastered on it. So regardless if anyone wants to talk to me about this "visual eyesore," they at least will see it and hopefully check it out. Hopefully your website will get a few hits... this weekend.

...As far as how I physically feel, I am excited to do this but am experiencing a horrific case of butterflies in the stomach. Here's where praying will be coming in...

Always great to get your newsletter and the things you are able to do because of God. (A personal favorite section is LDS members who email you in your mailbag). Keep up the great work!

[Then he wrote back:] Well, today was very non status quo to say the least. From 10:30am to 2:30 pm, I was outside as well as inside of the... Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. ...I was able to speak with a number of people.

First off, 2 missionaries inside the church were tipped off that, ". . . a guy holding some signs is standing right out in front of the church..." Predictably they both came out in stride and approached me. ... Anyways, we talked about why I was out there, they brought up praying about the church and Book of Mormon, and after about 15 minutes they went back inside.

While I had been talking to those 2, a woman who was walking her dog on the same sidewalk we were standing on briefly stopped behind me, took a look at the Joseph Lied sign, and continued on. After the missionaries left, she came back and asked me about the signs and what I was doing out here. It turns out this woman goes to the same church I go to..., and said she knew of a few people who may be interested in joining forces and doing something like this. Cool!

...Around 1pm, a girl about a year or two younger than me came out because a friend of hers who had gotten to the church earlier had text messaged her that ". . . a guy holding some signs is standing right out in front of the church..," and she came out to investigate. We talked for about 5 minutes outside, and then she suggested to go inside... As it turns out, the girl that i went inside with... had a group of friends inside that she brought me over to. So now I am talking to a group of 5 guys + her.

Right as I was about to move on with the conversation, 2 friends of mine from back home... walked inside. We talked a little and then they moved on to go inside the chapel. Basically, I assumed they knew what I was doing, and it looked like they were taking it really well. They didn't get far because the 2 missionaries that I spoke with earlier this morning told them right before they got into their chapel... told them I had been initially outside holding up signs.

The reaction I was expecting out of them if I were to run into them today finally manifested itself in both of them. [She] came over and demanded that [she], her husband... and I go outside the front doors immediately to talk. Long story short, they are heavily disappointed in me and were visibly showing signs of anger. So naturally I have a problem....

If I was worried about this happening, then I would not have gone out to do what I did today. I told you how long it has taken for me to go to this point. Like I said earlier, I was expecting the reaction they showed today. Now that it has actually happened (specifically 2 good friends essentially mad at me) though, it hurts. I definitely love God more than them, but it is not easy to go through with something like this in real time. I made it a point to do some praying when I got back.

...Again, thank you and may God continue to bless you in your life. In Christ, P.S. I was able to wave and smile briefly at passing cars... :)

[I responded:] Very happy to hear about all the interaction. That's what confrontational ministry does; it stirs the pot and conversations about Christ result. Don't worry about your friends' reaction. Let God take care of them, and continue to pray for them. Remember the analogy of waking someone up when her house is burning. Uncomfortable for all, but it's still needed at times. If they are really your friends, then they've got to respect you, even if they disagree with you, for doing what you believe needed to be done. If they can't respect you, then they aren't your friends. They are instead using you. Friendship isn't the priority. Truth and love should be. Let everything else flow from that. (I've got an LDS friend who remains a good friend with me even though she knows what I do in downtown SLC. She thinks it's good that I'm forcing the LDS to think about their faith. I think this is a proper friendship, and I won't compromise this with LDS.) Confrontation must come at some point, no matter how nice your friendship is, otherwise the gospel will never really be communicated to them. They have been warned. In eternity, they will either thank you or wish they had listened to you. PTL, for all the people who were confronted yesterday that would not have been otherwise! ...I hope this is somewhat of an encouragement to you. Don't give up and stay focused! Great is your reward in heaven!

[He responded:] thanks for the email. I feel better about things today than yesterday when I wrote to you... I totally agree with what you are saying. That is how I was able to finally get out there and cause a ruckus. I am realizing God needed me to be in the right mindset so that when my friends came, I knew what was more important. Don't get me wrong, it still feels depressing to know I could potentially be cut off from them. Yet, what happened yesterday had to happen. My love and admiration for God is now finally above and beyond trying to keep them as friends. I can now put them into the same boat as all the members of the Mormon church. And that boat is that they need the truth and to be warned about what they are involving themselves with. God willing, I will keep trying to talk to them (my friends and the people going to that church). It's out of my hands as far as what happens next. ...again, thanks for your support. In Christ,

I did manage to finally send a small donation your way a week or so ago. I appreciate your ministry even more after listening to Pastor Dennis' sermons on 1 Timothy (he started the series a few weeks ago). He is pointing out that people in the world, even among some Christians, want to get along with each other so badly that they'll compromise their position of faith if necessary to tolerate the other guy's views. ...I think more boldness and less compromise is needed in the Christian church today... a boldness that is willing to risk one's face, comfort zone and even property to proclaim and defend the faith "once and for all times entrusted" to us as believers in Christ. You are among the few evangelists doing it so openly with the LDS, Rob. I do not say that I fully endorse your methods in every circumstance (I'm referring to some of the energy and time spent pursuing legal matters with respect to the stupidity of Mormons who hassle you). I guess I have no right to criticize you as I'm not the one getting harassed. I do think it gives greater glory to God to endure the very unjust treatment you often receive instead of enforcing or invoking the law against the imbeciles who are acting out of their flesh and not as true agents and representatives of the Lord Jesus. You have a great advantage of them: you have the true gospel. You have the authority they only think they possess. I believe it would only strengthen and further establish your ministry among them to suffer wrongfully as a Christian for spreading the truth when they hassle you and try to keep you from holding your signs up, passing out tracts, etc. (1 Peter 2:19-25) Keep doing what you do best: be that bee-hive shaker and if some dumb bug stings you, just shake it off and praise God you were counted worthy to suffer for His Name's sake (Acts 5:41,42).

I didn't mean to do a sermon... ...Having said all that I also need to say just how much I respect your dedication and zeal for the Lord... and your great sacrifices made to continue your witnessing efforts, Rob. ...When you think about it, Rob, isn't it awesome to see just how much more witnessing material and people involved there are now than, say, ten years ago in reaching LDS? I love it! ...Stay in touch and thanks again for your friendship, sacrifice and ministry, Rob. I do hope to continue some form of financial support to help you. In Christ Always,

Thank you for the newsletter -- I appreciate the update. I found a few things in Mike's letter interesting, in particular the Mormon who claimed that Jesus wouldn't be standing on a corner with a "Joseph Lied" sign ... I would say it's a safe bet that this same person has completely skipped over the passages where Jesus publicly chastised the Pharisees, calling them a brood of vipers and white-washed tombs filled with all evil and debauchery -- holy smokes! You don't MESS with J.C.! I think standing on a corner with a sign is thousands of times more tame than the approach Jesus took when the time and situation called for it. Love you, Bro! Take care!

Your newsletters are great, thanks for the updates. The incidents you describe and how you handle them help us all with insights in sharing our faith with the Mormons. Looking forward to ministering with you this summer.