MormonInfo.org

August 3, 2004 Dear Family and Friends, At the beginning of last month, I concentrated my energies on tracting the national Evangelical Free Church youth convention that was held at the downtown Salt Lake City convention center. I heard there were probably around 5000 high schoolers in attendance. Many of them thought I was LDS, since I was holding my sign with my web site on it: "MormonInfo.org". One kid even took the tract from me and immediately ripped it up (just like some LDS do)! So I had to keep telling them that I'm not LDS, and that I in fact go to an EV Free church. After that was out of the way, I was able to get out a ton of literature! I told them I was doing this to inoculate them from the LDS Church, and so that they would be more equipped to witness to LDS. During the middle of the month, I went to speak to a water ski and running camp at Solid Rock Bible Camp in Soldotna, Alaska. My buddy Matt Setian works at this camp, and his in-laws run the camp, and he invited me to come up and be the speaker for the week. He told me that it was going to be high school, but then when I got there, I found out that there were also a good handful of eighth graders (this was an interesting challenge to make my lectures understandable to this age group)! Altogether, there were around a 100 participants. I also found out when I got there that they wanted me to do both morning and evening chapels for the week (I originally was told I would just be doing the evening chapels). The first day, Monday, I spoke on "What is a Christian and Why you Should be One" for both morning and evening sessions. The next morning I spoke on "False Prophets, and the Differences between a World Religion, Denomination, Cult, and Liberal Movement". That evening, and for the next three evenings, we showed 10 minute DVD talks put out by Nooma Ministries, and then I led a discussion on them. This evening was about sex, actually why it should be reserved exclusively for marriage. The next morning I spoke on "The Unbiblical Mormon Worldview". That evening we discussed the problem of suffering. The next morning I spoke on "The Trinity Options: United Pentecostals, Mormons, and Traditional Christianity". That evening we discussed the biblical doctrine of forgiveness. The next and last morning I spoke on "Jehovah's Witnesses" (with a Jehovah Witness girl present!). Then the last night I spoke on "Hungering and Thirsting for Righteousness". There were probably about at least half of the students who raised their hands to commit themselves to Christ, and I was also able to baptize 3 of them! One of the students thanked me for speaking, and told me that I had totally changed his whole outlook on Christianity. When I wasn't speaking, preparing for the lectures, eating or sleeping, I was fishing. I was there for the beginning of the sockeye salmon run, and brought back around 46 lbs. of salmon! After the camp, I went to my folks' in California for a while to get a way from Utah ministry distractions, so I can concentrate on getting this comprehensive paper done (at least a rough draft). But of course there are distractions here too. The sister missionaries came to my brother's place, and he scheduled an appointment with them for the next day, and invited me to come witness to them. We had a very cordial 2 and 1/2 hour discussion with 3 of them, and my brother thought it went very well. I was a little disappointed that we didn't see an "aha" moment on their parts even though one of them seemed to shake her head a lot in agreement with what we were saying. But there are a couple things I keep in mind in situations like this: 1) Before I left Utah, I remember my former LDS buddy, Greg Dixon, who told me that one of things that really got his attention when he was on his mission was a Christian lady they ran into, who didn't say much, but he could sense how much she loved them. This was one of the things God used to get Greg looking in the direction of traditional Christianity. 2) I have a video interview I did with a guy named "Gene" out in front of the Salt Lake Temple 10 years ago. (It was so good that I just put it up on my "Testimonies" page of my web site.) Gene tells the story of when he was on his LDS mission, and how he ran into Christians that challenged him. He goes on to say how it was some of their words that God used years down the road to get the lights to go on for him as it were. In addition to these activities, I did a couple film reviews last month for my web site: 1) Out of Step and 2) Handcart. Thank you for every prayer said on my behalf, and for every check written on my behalf.

Rob at Solid Rock Bible Camp Rob lecturing at Solid Rock Bible Camp Luke, John, Rob, and Megan after their baptism Rob and one of his salmon

The love of Christ constrains me (2 Cor. 5:14),

Rob
Rob@Mormon Info.org
Mormon Info.org

****PRAYER LIST****

****MAILBAG****

hey rob. just saw your posting on your website of our email conversation. i find it highly distasteful and am asking you take it down. not because im ashamed of anything i said, (im not) but because it is a breach of a private discussion i had with you, that i didnt intend and would not like made public without my permission. if you had asked me, i probably would have said yes, but since you didnt id ask you respect me and take it down. i realize i cant make you, and im appealing to your (seemingly absent) good nature. you fail to understand a few things:

your cute little BBC comment betrays a complete misunderstanding of everything ive said to you. i never said its wrong to tell other people that they are wrong, or that their beliefs are wrong. ive never asserted its "arrogant" to challenge evil and twisted beliefs (like mormonism, a violent, misogynistic and blasphemous religion). however, what i do understand is that Christ taught that they will know we are Christians by our LOVE. that by respecting others, treating them as if they are competent rational creatures, and lovingly MINISTERING to them (which is contrary to whatever it is you do), you can lead them out of error into the truth.

this doesnt mean not getting harsh sometimes, or not stating black and white truth. what it does mean is not telling someone youve never met that their father is the devil. that doesnt seem to be the best way to be an ambassador for Christ which you (and I) are CHARGED to do.

the reason your log/eye comment is a fallacy is that the situations are different. i used strong language to rebuke you, my brother in Christ, for acting in a manner unworthy of the Gospel. something i am called by scripture to do. what i wouldnt do is use the same strong language or harsh attitude against someone who i was hoping to show the Gospel. perhaps i was too strong in my rebuke, and i certainly am at fault for being indignant at the way you replied to me, since it was my initial tone that caused that. for that i admit i might have been unfair. however, i take ministry very seriously, i take truth very seriously, and i take my faith very seriously. and the fact that i have seen in your mailbag section, you systematically drive people away from the faith with your lack of love, i dont believe my anger was unwarranted. your whole mailbag section seems entirely unfair and distasteful.

since you seem far beyond taking any kind of criticism, i am assuming i might read this up on your site soon, but i entreat you on Christ's behalf, my beloved Savior and the God of the universe, to reexamine your practices in this ministry. i dont doubt that God has used you, and for that i praise Him. however, your methods seem rather antithetical to the Gospel, and very self-focused. if you would consider treating those who you minister to (even those who email you in anger) with respect and even love (something like Christ taught how we should treat our enemies), you might find that there is much more fruit to be had. this in no way means you need to water down your message. that is a false assertion you hide behind. it means you water down your pride, and your trusting yourself, and you live in a manner worthy of the Gospel, shining the love of Christ which is promised to dwell in you to all you meet. anyways, heres hoping

[I responded:] I'm not going to take our correspondence down. I left your name out of it. You knew I have a mailbag section since you were harping on it. All those e-mails in there are of the same nature. And they are for the benefit of all. As long as no one knows who I was corresponding with they remain private.

You did call me "prideful" in your correspondence, and that's a synonym for "arrogant". Since I find the way I minister to people biblical, and what you are advocating as unbiblical (you continue to not quote from the Bible), it's a reasonable assumption to make that your against me telling the truth to the masses or in brief sarcastic remarks in "answering fools according to their folly". You want me to "always" contextualize it to fit particular individuals so I can be more effective on your view, and have extended friendly dialogues. I've given biblical examples in my correspondence with you as well as my newsletter that backs up what I do, and you haven't dealt with them. I don't buy your PC view of love. Love, Your bro,R

Wow, what an experience you had at Manti... too bad some Christians negate your way of witnessing. Years ago, when I went to hear Walter Martin speak (I was LDS then), I had some Christians come up to me after his "lecture" was done and apologize for his rudeness in case I was offended. It's a tough call, Rob. I think Roger Overton really said it best in his statement you published in the newsletter about how he felt at first watching your style of witnessing and then realizing, because LDS are lost souls in need of salvation and you were just there doing whatever it takes to win them to Christ and you needed help, well, he was willing to hold your sign and help you.

Quite honestly, your style of evangelism isn't mine but it doesn't make your way wrong. In fact, what am I doing that currently is winning souls to Christ like you?! Hey, the people that don't like your method have a right to their opinion but they also need to consider that God calls people to serve in different ways. We are all gifted to do things in the Body... and our equipment and tools and gifts are different, too. Who am I to judge your method and find fault with it just because I wouldn't feel right about yelling in a crowd that Mormonism is wrong? Maybe I need to try it sometime!!

Anyway, all this to say I hope you won't get discouraged by the criticism by some of our own brothers. If you need to change your approach I believe God can and will help you see that. What's sad is that our own brotherhold can sometimes also be our opposition... and we get shot by well-meaning but fruitless "friendly fire." The next time one of our own attacks you, try asking them to remember you in their prayers and have them pray for God to reveal to you what may be necessary to change in your ministry or approach.. and that you'd appreciate prayers said in your behalf that your work would be effective in saving lives for Christ's glory, no matter how it's conducted.

I'm always pleased to share something of what God has blessed us with with ministries like yours which reach LDS. ...Anyway, please pray that we'll have adequate income to keep our faith-based support coming your way. I am praying for fruit from your labors at Manti, bro. May our God richly bless and sustain you thru these trials and great works of love done for His glory and kingdom. ...Always in Christ by Grace,

Thank you for sharing your newsletter with me. I'm assuming you don't mind, but I'd like to share it with my prayer partners. I'm amazed at all the various perspectives different people have from the pageant. I'm also encouraged by how many youth were there and the impact it made on them, at least it did with the youth I was with and it sounds like it did with others also. I wonder what I would have been like had I come in high school. I still can't believe the hostility you have received. I was in shock the nights it happened, and still am, days later. I can't believe this sort of thing happened here in America. I will continue to pray for your protection. Perhaps these incidents will give you an opportunity to speak to these individuals more and bring them to the kingdom of God.

...I now understand why [Pastor] Chip [of the Ephraim Bible Church] was harping on unity so much. I didn't realize you had so much opposition from other Christians. Your signs are great attention getters, and probably actually help start the conversations. I remember watching you the first night I was there and wondering if you were going to stop when the pageant started or keep preaching. But after listening to you and watching how you respond to other people, I actually admire your boldness. I know that you are trusting God, and I'm assuming that you are praying as much as you are preaching, so how could you not be doing exactly what God is asking you to do? God created so many different individuals and we all react differently to different situations. I'm glad that you are doing what you are doing. God bless you. I don't know how you handle so much criticism. I hope you have a strong support group in Salt Lake City. No matter how busy you get, please keep prayer first in your life.

There is no point in arguing about what pretend scriptures may or may not say between two completely human and made up churches, stop wasting your time picketing at the beautiful Mormon Vatican (downtown Salt Lake). Thanks

[I simply wrote this atheist back to tell him that I don't, along with most Americans, share his assumption, since the Bible is very well-attested.]

I have lived in Utah and I have lived in Mississippi with so many people telling me I would go to hell because I didn't accept their faith as my own. Believing in my Saviour Jesus Christ and knowing that through him and only through him would I be able to return to my heavenly father wasn't enough even though my standards were higher than theirs. They were so close, yet missed that one important part of good works. ...the will of the Father...

My husband was Methodist and I have been LDS my whole life. I have never hated anyone outside of our church nor have I ever told them they were going to hell. So why are we treated this way?

A true Missionary of God will profess his name on the highest mountain tops. Preaching what you believe to be true to others. I admire what you do. I read your biography and I have seen you on the streets with your sign. The only thing I can ever think of is: what made him so bitter towards our church? So many "protesters/missionaries" will tell lies and ignore the heart of every religion. God. Jesus Christ. If this is what saves us...then why are so many people out there afraid of our religion? Why do so many people think we are wrong. We are peaceful and love God. Will that never be enough?

The only suggestion I have for your mission - build up your own religion. How can anyone know what you consider to be true if you are only protesting a religion? Some people might see your sign, but that's it. The only reason I came to your site was to find out if you used to be LDS or if you were just here to try to teach your beliefs. Contention is of the Devil. Remember that next time you are yelling things to the religious ones leaving sacred sermons. You have a huge impact on so many tourists and locals. Teach your religion. We don't have missionaries holding signs - so really you have the upper hand when it comes to that. Make a website with your religious affiliation so that curious people will go to that site and learn the great things you have to tell them.

If Christ were here today, standing next to you, would he approve of what you are doing, deceiving people? Or would he say Go, preach the gospel.

I just felt I needed to respond. You may not take any of this into your heart, but I really hope you do. You seem like such a well educated man. No one is telling false things on the internet about your religion and I feel we deserve the same respect. Thank you for at least reading this and I hope you at least take this email into consideration.

I was looking around your website and I think that what you are doing is wrong. I am a strong Christian and I think that it is good for you to be out there trying to convert people to Christianity, but I think that some of the things you are doing can be very offensive to people and can really turn them away from what you are trying to tell them. I think that you should try a less offensive approach. There may be more people interested in your ministry. I just got back from visiting my grandparents (LDS) in Salt Lake City, and when I saw people holding signs that said things like "Joseph lied", it really turned me off, even though I am a Christian. It probably isn't my place to say, but you may be doing more damage than helping people with your ministry. Please don't take any of the things I have said personally because I really did enjoy looking around your website. I found most of it very interesting but I think it might be better if you just tried a different approach to reach people. I don't think that God means for us to try to change peoples' religions or point out faults about them. We should just learn to accept what they believe and try to live peacefully with them. I hope that I did not offend you in any way. Thank you for reading this and I hope that you will take my advice. God bless

[From one of the members of the mission team that came out in June:] Rob your way of ministry had a huge affect on all of us. We are still talking about you :)))) Thanks so much. These kids are on fire. They just keep saying "we want to go back".

[In another letter by this same individual:] I don't know if you ever get discouraged but I know the LORD is with you and HE loves you and wants you to open your mouth. The scripture that keeps coming to mind is Jer. 20:9 Remember the day you came and taught us at the church in Midvale? and you closed with Psalm 3. You didn't know it but the LORD had been giving me that verse about ... I will not be afraid of tens of thousands of people who have set themselves against me round about... you will never know how that ministered to me. AND I thought probably the only reason GOD gave Rob that Psalm is cause lots of people hate his guts. Set your face as flint Rob ...HIS right hand will find out all your enemies and all those that hate you, Ps. 21:8.

I'm glad I came across your website. I recently started my own little church called "Gay Evangelists for Jesus." What with the high frequency of gay marriages recently in America, and being a gay Christian myself, I wanted to foster a safe environment for other gay Christians like myself who wish to express our individuality while also receiving the guidance of Jesus' teachings in the Bible. I think it's a great combination. So far our spirits are up and everyone in my little flock seems to feel good about this new haven I have created. I am curious, though---having never been to Utah myself---what are my prospects of gaining a substantial following in Utah? I noticed that you make frequent trips to Utah to spread the good word. How is the seedbed of faith there, so to speak? How are you received by the people there? After seeing some pictures of you on your website, you strike me as a good-looking, upstanding young man who knows where he's going in life. I want you to know that I really admire that. And you have inspired me to redouble my efforts in spreading Christ's gospel. As you can probably well imagine, my fellow travelers and I are constantly criticized and harrassed for our choice of sexual orientation. But I've always admired how Jesus loved everyone, and that is what I'm trying above all else to get across to people---that no matter what we've done, Christ is there for us with His saving grace. I hope not to encumber you or monopolize your time, Rob, but I just wanted to get your input on the prospects of my evangelical success in Utah because you look to me like someone who is a robust soldier in Christ's evangelical army of crusading truth.

[My buddy Matt Vessey (of Perfect Righteousness) has been corresponding with an LDS guy that I passed off to since he was too time consuming, and I doubted his sincerity anyway. I thought Matt might like a sparing partner to boot. This LDS guy came across as so sincere at first, and then he sends us his website (http://www.mjwsoftware.com/bible/?password=folly) to show the world that Christians can't answer his questions. Upon seeing this, Matt responded:] You are such a liar, and liars don't inherit the kingdom of God! [Revelation 22:15]

[The LDS guy responded:] Ah hah! Now here's a traditional Christian doctrinal "essential" that Rob never told me about! All this time I thought that the ONLY saving "essential" in your doctrine was to believe in the goofy siamese split personality god that you've been trying to describe to me. But now you're saying that one must ALSO strictly obey the ten commandments (the law) in order to be saved! YOU GUYS ARE SO CONFUSING! I wonder if Rob also believes that obedience to the commandments is absolutely essential to salvation. I wonder if ANY other traditional Christian would agree with you! Are you SURE you want to venture out onto that lonely limb (with the Mormons) by saying that man must somehow "earn" salvation by being honest?? Oh please, as if Christ's grace is INSUFFICIENT to save someone who has faith yet lacks perfect honesty! Dude, the more you talk, the more you sound like one of us! You're a true Mormon at heart but you just lack the courage to acknowledge it.

[I responded to Matt:] You know that I have had no interest in corresponding with Mike [the LDS guy], and I told him quite a while ago that I doubted his sincerity. If you choose to correspond with him just for kicks, I'd point out that there's simply one thing necessary for him to be saved, viz., he needs to repent (Grk. = "change of mind") of all his sins. When this happens, he will be by definition "believing and receiving" what God wants for him, and he will "evidence" his new life by his fruit. His tragically blind and thick head can't understand that this is a different question from what the essentials are for the Christian faith. The latter become the yardstick that "we" as The Church use to tell if someone is really being led by the Spirit of God. If they continue to persist in sin (doctrinally or morally), then it's obvious to us that they should not be counted as part of the Invisible Church, and we thereby kick such wolves out of the visible Church.

I just had a meeting with my ministry director today and he's on board with getting a group from our church...to go to Utah next year. I'm looking at a group of 5-10 people, possibly some high school age but mostly older. I'd like to do Temple Square, BYU, and Manti. I know Jim...is also planning on going again next years. ...Thanks for your good work brother, looking forward to working with you again. in His grace

We would be there from June 18th to the 25th. We are trying to time it for Manti again, do you think we'll hit it? We would love to be able to have you train us again Rob, you were incredibly influential with our kids and with my son in particular. But I can also tell you that one trip a year will not be enough for me. This year I am training my entire family and we will come more often once we get a new car. We are also designing a web page for our website. More to come on that. (Are we being called?) Love you....

Just today I really felt like God has started calling me to do mission work, perhaps in Salt Lake City, but most importantly to work with Mormons. Within the past year I really became interested learning about the error in the way of living for Mormon individuals, reading various books on the topic, and feeling compelled to speak the truth to my Mormon friends. Tonight has been a long night and after talking about wanting to do mission work in Utah with a friend, I wanted to see who I could find on the net with the passion I have for this...and after searching for a short period of time, I came to your site along with your contact information.

I was curious if perhaps you could help direct me in accomplishing God's request. I don't know where to start, I don't know what exactly to ask, and I'm not quite sure where to look for answers. Do you know of any mission groups that continually work in Utah, or any individuals (or groups) to contact about something of this sort? ...I have actually never done any mission work before but as I said, today God really spoke to me and has said that this is the path he wants me on.

I'm incredibly sorry I don't know what to ask, God has led me to you and I only hope you can help me move along on this journey. Thank you for your time. Through Christ,