MormonInfo.org

July 6, 2005

Dear Family and Friends,

The big news from last month was of course the Manti Pageant (June 16-18 and 21-25). This event is an outdoor play in Manti, UT (right in the center of the state) concerning the early formation of the Mormon Church and some stories from the Book of Mormon, and it takes place on the grassy slope just outside the Manti Temple. It draws thousands of LDS there each night, but it also draws hundreds of Christian evangelists from all over the country! The gates open at 6 p.m., and many try to grab a good seat. Now the pageant doesn't start for 3 and a half hours later, so many come out and talk with us Christians on the street that is blocked off to automobiles. We also pass tracts out and hold up signs. Then about the last half-hour before the pageant begins, I begin walking around the gate preaching to the crowds.

To see more pictures on the events of the Manti Pageant than what I have here, see Bruce Hall's. To see a short video produced by Erick King on the last couple Manti Pageant outreaches (prior to this year) click here.

This year's pageant had an extremely weird opening night for me. I ran into Greg Johnson of Standing Together Ministries, and he was with John Morehead of the Neighboring Faiths Project. I was introduced to John, and met him before everything got going. I was very cordial to him as well as Greg Johnson. I thanked John for moving to UT. John didn't seem interested at all in me, probably because of the sign I was holding. Greg was much more cordial to me. John and Greg stood at the temple grounds fence, and watched me minister. They didn't do any ministry; they just wanted to check out the scene and the pageant. After dialoguing cordially with an LDS guy, I had a crowd of people surrounding me, hurling insults at me, so I decided to start preaching early. I had 3 people that specifically went after the sign within about the first 1/2-hour of the gates opening up! It was simply the sign, and not my preaching that made them really snap. The first guy ripped the sign out of my hand and threw it to the ground. He ran away. The second guy was going for violence simply because he wanted the sign out of there. But the cops were really awesome! They quickly restrained him. They were constantly keeping an eye on people who might attack me, so this really made me feel secure when I preached. After the cops took care of him, he came back later with a "Damn Liar" sign with an arrow(s) that was meant to point at me, but quite humorously it was pointing at himself (see the picture). This guy ended up talking to my Christian buddy, Todd Martin, and the guy apologized to him for acting the way he did. The third incident was with a middle age lady that totally snapped. She ripped my sign partly, and I grabbed her arm to restrain her. The cops quickly did the same, and I didn't have any more real problems. The following nights of the pageant, I had no problems with my sign.

My take is that God set this up to, among other things, work on John to get him to sort through and loosen up with others like myself who feel called to focus (though not exclude other forms of ministry) on an "incarnational" confrontational ministry. John has never been to the pageant before. He wrote a very demeaning article toward his confrontational brothers and sisters, which was published in Cornerstone Magazine. I was clearly mentioned in the article, but not by name. I don't think we should take what he says very seriously, particularly since I've documented him making that incredibly brain-dead PC statement, "Mormonism is a culture not a cult". Consequently, I was sure to preach to the LDS that they needed to repent of their "cult", among other things. I heard that John threw out that stupid Bridges (for a critical article I wrote of this particular type of relational ministry, click here) platitude that I was "shaking the beehive"! (Editorial remark: Sniff, cry, pout.)

John needs to thank God and others for using a variety of ministries to reach truly unique hearts instead of criticizing other brothers and sisters who are simply trying their best to minister like Christ, and His prophets and apostles. This is a point John fails to grasp since he myopically stereotypes all LDS into a monolithic culture that responds with similar outputs. But just because the cult of Mormonism is in fact a culture is no reason to assume that God can't draw people (immediately or later down the road) to Himself via a variety of methods. God and His Word are bigger than all cultures! John needs to drop his naturalistic assumptions, and trust God to move through His word as He promised He would (cf. Isaiah 55:11 and Hebrews 4:12). And due to all the outputs of conversions that many confrontationalists see with Mormons becoming Christians (cf. many reported on in my newsletters, for example), John's advice will most likely be falling on deaf ears. Finally, I honestly wonder if John reads the Bible. Violence, among other uncomfortable things, certainly is often associated there with the preaching of the gospel, and our Lord told us that we weren't supposed to be surprised when we're hated. Why is John trying to foster a ministry for everyone in which no one will speak ill of us (cf. Luke 6:26)? I love these LDS people so much, and I can't help but tell the masses the gospel and that the LDS Church and prophets are ripping them off.

Now here's the real good news: I got to lead a couple guys to the Lord there at the Manti Pageant. Neither of them were LDS. The first happened on the second night, and the second guy received Christ exactly a week later. The first guy, Larry (see picture), has been hanging around the group from the Ephraim Church of the Bible, but never made a commitment to the Lord before. At the beginning of the night, right after we got done singing and praying on the street in front of the temple, Larry came up to me and asked me about what my sign was all about. (Notice that it was because of the sign that we met.) I asked him if he was a Christian, and he said, "Sort of". I laughed and asked him if that was like being "sort of" pregnant. I shared the gospel with him, and Shawn Wagner (the youth pastor in Ephraim) and Brody Olson (who also works with the Ephraim church) were right there with us. I led Larry in a prayer to turn from his sins and receive Christ. I then asked Larry where Christ was. I could totally see the lights go on in his eyes when he said, "He's in my heart." I went through some follow up with him, and then Shawn prayed for him.

I got to hang out with Larry a little during my time in Manti and Ephraim. He came to hang out at church and the church's college house. But it was really cool to hang out with him the following week when another guy received the Lord in front of both of us. The guy's name was C. J. I didn't have long with him, but I figured out pretty quickly that he wasn't LDS, so I proceeded to give him as much of the law and gospel as I could. He told me that he had friends waiting for him, so I asked him if he'd like to take an extra minute and make sure of his eternal life. He agreed, so I invited him to sincerely call out to Christ in repentance and accepting His new life. Afterwards I asked C. J., as I asked Larry a week earlier, "Where's Christ right now?" Straightaway, C. J. motioned to his heart!

During the week and a half of the pageant, I was privileged to speak a couple times to mission teams. Both of these were quite unexpected. On the 19th, I got a call from Bob Niehoff wondering if I would be able to speak to his group the next day. On the 20th, the pageant took a break for family home evening, so that freed me up to speak to this mission team from Slater, Iowa for about 4 hours at my church (see picture)! We had a couple breaks, but this was a great group that was eager to absorb a lot of information. Then on the 22nd, Pastor Chip Thompson asked me to fill in for Bunjee Garrett, who was scheduled to speak on the 25th. Sorry you couldn't make it Bunjee, but I had the group laughing quite a bit as I knew that's what you would have done! I ended up speaking on Suffering and Joy in Evangelizing Mormons. You can actually listen to it by clicking here, and here for the Q & A and panel discussion.

The next day after the pageant, the Rock Hills Church high school mission team from Mission Viejo, CA came up for a full week of ministry and education. That night I shared with them what happened at Manti, and tried to encourage them for the upcoming week. They spent the first two days downtown touring the sites and witnessing. Monday night, Mike Norton of JosephLied.com spoke to them. Tuesday morning they went to the Utah Lighthouse Ministry to hear Sandra Tanner, and that night Bill McKeever of Mormonism Research Ministry spoke to them. Wednesday morning they toured the LDS Institute of Religion at the University of Utah. That afternoon I took them on a fun hike in the mountains, and that night Jay Howard of FocusontheFaulty.org spoke to them. Thursday and Friday were spent at and around BYU. There we had lunch with the students in the cafeteria, and got to share our faith with them. After lunch on Thursday, we went to hear John Tvedtnes of F.A.R.M.S. (Foundation for Archeological Research and Mormon Studies) (see picture). He mostly answered questions for us, and dealt with the DNA issue regarding the Book of Mormon (cf. Dennis Monokroussos' film review concerning this problem). Thursday night we ministered around the Salt Lake Temple. After lunch Friday, we went door to door around BYU (see picture). Saturday morning and afternoon was spent back in downtown Salt Lake City ministering in front of the Temple. It was then that Jeremy and Dirk led a homeless guy named Johnny to the Lord (see picture). That night we went to an amphitheater just above Robert Redford's Sundance resort. We had a time of singing, sharing, and prayer. I shared how impressed I was by this group. I also shared how I've worked with a lot of different mission teams, but I've never seen team members actually weep over the lost like this group. I wish we had a group like this continually ministering up here in Utah.

This is getting really tiring, but for the third month in a row, I've been hassled by cops (I didn't report that back in April, while I was in CA, an Officer Paez checked me out while I was advertising on a freeway overpass in San Marcos, and he asked me to do him a favor and move down to the street intersection or he'd have to cite me if he got any more complaints)! On the 26th, I was ministering in downtown Salt Lake City with the Rock Hills group, and the wind and rain kicked up. I went across the street from the South Gate of Temple Square to stand underneath the Crossroads Plaza sign, and in front of the mall doors to keep my new big sign dry. Hardly anyone was coming through the doors, and I was never in anyone's way. I was sharing my faith with a group of teenage guys while I waited for the rain to pass. A security officer from the mall came out and told only me that I couldn't be there since it was their property. He told me that it was their property out directly to under the full extent of the Crossroads Plaza sign. I couldn't believe it, so I asked him for something in writing which demonstrated that. He said that he didn't have to, and asked if I was going to leave. I told him that I wasn't going to until I saw something in writing. He went back inside, and minutes later when the weather began to cooperate, I went back to the curb to advertise, pass out tracts, and talk to people. About 10 minutes later the cops showed up, and cited me for misdemeanor trespassing! By the way, the LDS Church owns the mall. LDS bullies strike again. I'm thankful I have an ex-Mormon attorney friend who's going to help me work through this for free. Nonetheless, I'd still appreciate your prayers on this.

Thank you for every prayer said on my behalf, and for every check written on my behalf.

Grace and peace,

R.M.S.
Rob@Mormon Info.org
Mormon Info

****PRAYER LIST****

"It is during suffering that we learn to pray our most authentic, heartfelt, honest-to-God prayers. When we're in pain, we don't have the energy for superficial prayers" (Rick Warren, The Purpose Driven Life, 194).

1. For more salvations
2. For those that are coming out of the LDS Church and/or those who have recently committed themselves to the real Christ
3. For God to move more people to do ministry here
4. For Utah churches and individual Christians to support each other's various ministries
5. For financial provision
6. For the ability to get my rough draft comprehensive done soon
7. For God to use my web site
8. For love, protection, and wisdom as I minister
9. To get over on this ticket
10. For the upcoming LDS Temple opening in Newport Beach, CA (I'll be going most of August)

****MAILBAG****

We really enjoyed your last newsletter. Sounds like you really stirred things up in S.A. Texas! Keep up the great work!

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I wanted you to know that I forwarded the article of your arrest around my whole office. Co-workers were so shocked that persecution occurs here in the US! We're so accustomed to the stories from around the world, but this was eye opening.

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Right on man!!! Dude, you're so hardcore!!! I'm always encouraged to hear of your willingness to stand up for truth. That takes a lot of courage. Just focus on how many people are encouraged by your actions instead of all those people that try to bring you down. They just don't see the good in what you're doing, but hopefully someday they will. Thanks for your faithfulness.

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Hope you're doing o.k. under your new missionary umbrella. You are an inspiration to so many because of your dedication, fortitude, and boldness for The Lord!

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I just received one of your pamphlets at the Manti Pageant this last week. I am LDS and definantly not a fan of VERY vocal protesters. I find them to be VERY stubborn and ignorant. I have never met you (not that I recall at least) so I am not sure if you are one of "them" (I say them because of a conversation I had with James White who is a nice down to earth guy that you can actually TALK TO, who was also against the sign holders). Anyway, I had a few questions for you. In your pamphlet 7 differences you mention that all the various manuscripts of the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek scriptures are remarkably consistent with each other. This is common knowledge that it is not true. If I am mistaken, please send me some references. Also, in the section of polytheism you have an alternative view on deification, one that is not consistent with early church teachings. There are a few quotes that mention humans being one with God that some LDS have mistakenly attributed to mean that we will become gods, but the majority are actually talking of the human becoming a god himself. Please send me some info on your side of the fence. Thank you!

[I responded:] I grant that there are various manuscripts, and of course they differ. But my claim is that they aren't as divergent as we may naturally think they would be. I read various Bibles versions, and they seem rather similar to me, even though they are based on various manuscripts. The King James is based on manuscripts that date quite later than the ones that the New American Standard and New International are based on, for example. If you go to the New International Version, it will show you the variations on manuscript readings, but these variations make no difference to the meaning of the text and none of the variations question the foundational doctrines of the Christian Faith. As for the Old Testament specifically, Old Testament scholar Gleason Archer said, "[E]ven though the two copies of Isaiah discovered in Qumaran Cave 1 near the Dead Sea in 1947 were a thousand years earlier than the oldest dated manuscript previously known (A.D. 980), they proved to be word for word identical with our standard Hebrew Bible in more than 95 percent of the text. The 5 percent of variation consisted chiefly of obvious slips of the pen and variations in spelling. They do not affect the message of revelation in the slightest" (Josh McDowell, "The New Evidence that Demands a Verdict", 70).

As for Christian deification, if you go to my home page at www.mormoninfo.org, under the question, "Can human beings become Gods for other worlds as God is God for this world?" I quote C. S. Lewis, who clearly taught the doctrine. He knew Church history far better than I ever will, but he taught that we may become gods. This doctrine is consistent with the Bible so long as one makes a clear distinction between the nature of man and the nature of God. The former may "obtain" godhood, while the latter is essentially God. Christians who have consistently affirmed a God big enough to create literally everything outside Himself have no problem affirming that dependent creatures may obtain "godhood", even though they are completely different in nature than the Author and Sustainer of literally everything.

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Well, I learned a lot about you at your website today! I will continue to read things in the next few days (while taking care of my kids and house.) Thanks for coming to Manti this last week. I pray that many people will come to know the Lord through your ministry. I also am thankful I got the opportunity to meet you. I am so excited to go next year -- and it's not even over this year yet! My hubby is really looking forward to going next year, too.

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Thanks for fulfilliing scripture, About Joseph Smith the Lord said, "The ends of the earth shall inquire after thy name and fools shall have thee in derision, and hell shall rage against thee." (D&C 122:1).

By the way, who lied? You should call your website "Mormon Mis-info" Many of your claims are not contextual and much of your data is inaccurate, but of course, you already know that.

So, I have read through your website and I see that you do not agree with the scriptures, only to cite them as seem to fit your purpose, but what do you believe?

Isn't it fun, almost addictive to argue with people and try to undermine their faith. Arguing and fault finding is one of the favorite blood sports of our time. Thanks for joining the rainks and fulfilling scripture.

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Let me ask you how many times a Mormon group has come to your church and slandered your beliefs in God? Let me ask you how many people you convert by pushing your beliefs on them? How about this one, how effective has it been when you scream at the top of your lungs that our "freedom of religion" is wrong and that because we believe what we believe, we're all going to Hell? How many Mormons have told you that you're going to Hell? I bet you not as many have to you as you have told them. I can't stress to you how ridiculous it is that you go around to some ones place of worship, their holy place, a place they feel they can be close to God and let them know that having freedom of religion is just wrong, because obviously that's what you think. You believe in freedom of speech, otherwise you wouldn't be out and about trying to TALK to people about what they BELIEVE.

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I just visited your site and wow, there is a lot of good information. ...I thank God for your site, it helps me to be able to minister to Mormons that knock on my door.

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great going Rob, Wish you could have seen Wally Tope if some have ever told you about him, and his great work at BYU street corners etc. He was my mentor in Mormon evangelism. You are doing exactly what he did. Sadly was killed in LA riots '92 summer, when he chose to go downtown where people were looting. He lingered a year or more before he died. You are my Wally II.

[I responded:] Thanks! That's quite a compliment. Wally was a friend of mine, and stayed at my house.

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Great Update! I am so disappointed to hear the response you got from other christians regarding your style of evangelism. When that happens to me it hurts pretty bad. Keep up the confrontational evangelism.