May 2004
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June 2, 2004 Dear Family and Friends, Last month started out really well, since I got to lead Brandon to Christ. I sat next to him for an after church community meal. I introduced myself, and found out that he was a friend of a friend from church. He had been raised a Christian Science practitioner, but hadn't been in several years. I told him about Mark Twain's statement--that Christian Science was neither Christian nor Science--and then began to share the law with him. When he realized that he was a sinner, condemned before God, I then shared the gospel with him and he gladly received it. He prayed to ask Christ to be his savior, and turned from his sins. I then explained some helpful ways to grow as a Christian. A week or two later I heard from a friend that Brandon had expressed a desire to get baptized. One day while I was out in front of the temple witnessing, I ran into a couple teenage guys that I led to the Lord last summer at that very spot. They told me that their parents are still making them go to the LDS Church, but the parents aren't as pushy about it as they were before. Interestingly, I found out that one of the guy's dads is a security guard there at Temple Square, and of course is well aware of me! I am very excited to let you know of yet another worthwhile ministry up here in Utah. It's a ministry like that "John 3:16 guy" you always see when you watch football games on TV. Channel 2 news moved right on Main Street 6 months ago. The newscasters have a big window right behind them in which outside is the sidewalk on Main Street. People are free to come by on public property and wave to the cameras. So my buddy Mike Norton, who runs JosephLied.com, called me up and told me that he had displayed his web site sign on the news that night! He said that he received a tremendous response. He normally gets 175 hits a day on his web site, and about 5 to 10 e-mails a week. On this night alone, he got 1025 hits, and 41 e-mails! And the next day, he got 1918 individual unique hits! There are a couple pictures of this news event, and then a couple videos to watch at http://www.mormon info.org/index.php?id=42. I am displaying his web site sign on the second video. I came back with Mike several days later, but this time I was able to get a pretty good shot with my web site (MormonInfo.org). A couple days later I came back again, and got an even better few shots of my site. And sure enough, when I got back home that night I noticed my web site had been visited about 600 times, and when I quit that night, it went up a couple hundred more. I had received a little over 10 e-mails as well that night. |
Rob with Mike Norton
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It's
interesting to note that most of the response Mike gets is very
positive. People are overwhelmingly thankful for him displaying his
site. But it's just the opposite for me. The only thing I can think of
is that LDS know exactly what Mike's site is all about, and if they are
typical in being really committed to sticking their heads in the sand,
they won't even bother going to check it out. So Mike will have many
Christians, ex-LDS, or LDS who are wavering in their faith go to his
site. My site's name on the other hand is a little ambiguous. So
curious LDS will go to it just to see if by chance it's some pro-LDS
site that is trying to counter-act JosephLied.com. And when they find
out it's not, they're even more upset!
Thank you for every prayer said on my behalf, and for every check written on my behalf.
Rob
Rob@Mormon Info.org
Mormon Info
****PRAYER LIST****
2. For God to move more people to do street ministry downtown
3. For Utah churches and individual Christians to support each other's various ministries
4. For financial provision
5. For the ability to get my rough draft comprehensive done soon
6. For God to use my web site
7. For love, protection, and wisdom as I minister
8. For more good shots of our sites on the news (it's become very difficult now with the cameramen quick to cut us out)
9. For our evangelization at the upcoming Manti, UT Mormon Miracle Pageant (http://www.mormonmiracle.com/)
****MAILBAG****
Rob,
If you have a few moments, would you e-mail one of the young lady
leaders who is coming up on the trip? ...[S]he watched your lecture on
the nature of God. She wants to know why you use the phrase "repent
from their God" in reference to Mormons. I thought it would be cool for
her to get an e-mail response from you on this.
[I
responded:] The answer is that the law is a schoolmaster to bring one
to Christ as St. Paul said. He also said that without the law, there is
no knowledge of sin. David said that "the law of the Lord is perfect,
converting the soul; the testimony of the Lord is sure making wise the
simple; the statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart; the
commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes" (Ps. 19:7ff.).
The very first commandment is you should have no other god before God,
and the second is you should have no graven images. LDS have
constructed a false view of God that amounts to nothing more than an
idol. Jesus said that unless you repent, you'll perish (Lk. 13:3). He
also said that unless you believe that Jesus is the I AM, you'll die in
your sin (Jn. 8:24), and that eternal life is knowing God and His Son
whom He's sent (Jn. 17:3). LDS need to change their minds (repent) or
they will follow their false god to hell. Your bro, Rob
[In reference to me holding the JosephLied.com sign on the TV news cast, here are some positive e-mails:] Rob, Only you would be so bold! I laughed out loud for quite awhile when I saw your antics. Talk about using your resources.
well that's cool. keep it up. that's an awesome way to reach a lot of people.
Awesome Rob, keep up the faithful work! :)
Hi, ...my dad saw your sign on the news and told me to check it out so I did and I agree with what you have to say. I am glad that there is someone who can tell others the real truth about Mormonism. I am also a Christian and when I looked at your web site I was pleased with what you had to say. Thank you for taking your time to do this!!!
You guys are doing an awesome work here in Utah and I love it! I saw your sign on channel 2 news one night and decided to log on and check things out. I was so excited to see that you all have felt led to take on Utah. I was born and raised in Utah (and I am now 20) and I was born again at the age of seven. I love what you guys are doing here. Keep up the good work! I will pray for you all. Utah needs you!
[And here are some negative e-mails:]
It seems you don't know what you believe. But you sure know what you
don't believe. It looks like "hate" fuels your ministry. Doesn't remind
me of a true christian at all. There is a saying: "Any jackass can kick
a barn down, but it takes a true craftsman to build one." Which one are
you? Any psychiatrist would tell you that because of your own
insecurities, you have to find faults in others so that you can feel
better about yourself. Maybe you should just teach what you believe
instead of attacking others, unless you don't feel comfortable enough
doing that. God bless you for your righteous endevours.
[I
simply responded:] Thank you for attacking our ministry. If you can do
it to us, it only legitimizes what we do. If you look at the home page,
you'll see what we as traditional Christians believe.
Rob, When did "Christians" begin preaching hatred[?] When did the meaning of "witnessing for Jesus Christ" become insight hatred in others[?] All men are men and even the best of men make errors from time to time. Most Latter Day Saints that I know understand this and rely on their own personal relationship with God to help them understand the differences. Many Christians I know rely on the same. If one were to publish all the errors in word, thought, deed and print of many Christian pastors, I think the list would be much longer than your list of out of context, so called quotes of our LDS elders and prophets. They also are men. Jesus taught that above all we should LOVE one another. I'm sure since you claim to be a Christian that you must be familiar with John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. It does not matter who is or is not Christian. The word Christian is a noun created by men. The Lord our God has promised salvation and life everlasting to ALL who believe. Now don't you boys have some better way to spread His word?
[I simply responded:] If I'm hateful, then so are you. If you can tell me what you take to be the truth, so can I. Jesus said, "Unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins" (Jn. 8:24), and He said, "Here's eternal life: to know the only true God and His son whom He has sent" (Jn. 17:3). Jesus also said to beware of false Christs and false prophets in the last days (Mt. 24:24). I think you guys are breaking the very first commandment, and you don't care about the True God. If the LDS Church isn't teaching a false God and a false Christ, then I don't know who is. Now don't you have some better way to spread your negative message to me? Love,
I
am a Mormon and I would like to thank you for your work! All of the
questions and misguided distortions that you bring to light to those
who are not members of the LDS Church, inevitably make them curious
enough to ask a member of the church about their beliefs. This often
leads to investigation, prayerful consideration about our beliefs and
conversion and baptism by one holding the proper priesthood authority
into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I have seen this
so many times I could not count them all. The wonderful work you do
converts many more to the Mormon Church than you ever persuade to leave
the Church through your cunning and deceptive efforts. Really though,
to call your efforts cunning gives a little to much credit to the same
old worn out rhetoric that everyone has already heard a thousand times.
Anyway, I just wanted to say keep up the good work. We appreciate the
attention and will do our best to help those who now have a new
curiosity about the Mormon Church to come into the fold. And by the
way, the sign held up during the news broadcast was genius! That should
generate literally thousands of new people for the missionaries to
teach and baptize! Excellent work!!!
[I simply responded:]
Well, you're certainly welcome. If you can get me to speak at the next
general conference, I'm sure I can add many more LDS to your cult.
[This is from someone who thought I was LDS:] Unbelievable!! I can't even watch the news without you people pushing your cult on the rest of us!!!! [He wrote back to tell me that he agreed the LDS Church is the cult in Utah!]
Many will leave the Church, but nobody leaves it alone. Your website is a case and point. I know you're trying to save everyone in Utah. That's nice. The problem is, you're wasting your time for the most part. Give it up already. Let go of your anger and stop adding to the contention of our day. Let us believe and worship - how, where, and what, we may. Do you honestly feel in your heart at the end of the day, that you are closer to the Kingdom of God in the way that you "spread the word"? Is your method of "preaching" something you could honestly see Christ doing in His day. Think about it. Good luck in your endeavors.
[I responded:] I'm not sticking a gun to anyone's head. Anyone can believe whatever they want. I'm no more angry than you are in trying to set me straight. As a matter of fact, I love you and don't want to see you go to hell for believing a false and weak God who's not big enough to create the planet He was born on as a spirit child. If you want an answer to your question about Jesus doing ministry today, please check out my FAQ page.
[He responded:] As you should already know, I KNOW that God created this world and many others....without number. I don't think that describes a weak God. You're not sticking a gun to anyone's head, but you are sticking an annoying sign on everyone's TV. That type of behavior does not typify the style of Christ's preaching that I've ever seen, FYI. Christ loves us all with perfect love and is a peace-keeper. He and didn't do things in an annoying manner and probably would admonish his followers to behave accordingly. I'm sure He appreciates your efforts as your heart is in the right place. Please do not worry about me going to Hell for believing in the God that has shown me many miracles throughout my life and spoken peace to my soul when in times of crisis. If I should deny these miracles and manifestations, then I would be very worried about my eventual eternal state. Thanks.
[I responded:] Of course I know your god created "worlds without number", but he didn't create "all" worlds, did he? That's why your god is weaker than my God, by whom literally everything exists. I think you should read the New Testament. Why do you think Christ was crucified? Because He was a "peace-keeper"? Read the "woes" He nailed the Pharisees with in Matthew 23. He also said, "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law" (Mt. 10:34-5). Sounds like a revolutionary to me! You don't even know who Christ is, and that's why you should read the N.T. before you make such outlandish claims about Him.
So did your Christ create Lucifer, or matter, or intelligence, your spirit, or the planet he was born on as a spirit child? If not, he's a weak Christ and didn't create everything. Wasn't he born of heavenly parents in a pre-earth life? BTW, did you know that 9 out of the first 12 wives of Joseph Smith were already married, and that he consummated his adulterous marriages with them? And he took 13 and 14-year-old girls for wives? And that he didn't know what he was doing when he translated the Book of Abraham, the bogus Kinderhook plates, and when he translated the Bible. Typical false prophet who was into sex, power, and money. Check out JosephLied.com.
[He responded:] Christ did not create Lucifer. Lucifer was Christ's brother, they were both Son's of our Heavenly Father (not sons of Jesus) Job 1:6; 38:4-7; Zechariah 3:1-2; So, God and Jesus are two separate beings John 5:18-27 - they are "one in purpose" . So, ultimately God The Father created certain things, (His Spirit children and matter unorganized) before He commanded Christ to create worlds without number. Yes, we are His offspring ACTS 17:28-29. There is one God (The Father) and One Christ (His Son) 1-Corinthians 8:5-6.
And as for your last little bit of loving council and admonition, there is nothing that would prove any of that. Unless, of course, you were there. EVEN if that were true about Joseph, if the Book of Mormon is true, and I know it is, it wouldn't matter if you told me Joseph was a mass murderer. It just wouldn't matter because God has manifested the truthfulness of that book to me. Would I call God a liar? Not hardly. It is foretold in the scriptures that the concept of God would be lost. Jeremiah 16:19-21 * Matthew 15:1-9 * Romans 10:2-3.
[I responded:] OK, thanks for your honesty. Now you've admitted that Christ didn't create everything. Since He was born of heavenly parents, then He didn't create the planet He was born on as a spirit-child, right? And He didn't create His spirit grandfather's planet either, right? So... Christ didn't create all worlds, right? If so, then you cheapen Christ, and mine is much more powerful, since He really did create everything.
Now if it wouldn't matter to you if Joseph was a "mass murderer", would it matter if it could be proved that he was a pathological liar? And what makes you so sure that God revealed the truth to you as opposed to Satan, especially when all the facts point to Joseph being a pathological liar like his father... "the father of lies"? You don't need to keep your head in the sand.
[He responded:] Do you HONESTLY believe that Christ created himself??? I had a relative that was anti-mormon that believed like you. Sometimes you get a bit mean. No problem though. Christ created this earth and all other worlds at the command of His Father....before He came to this earth. Why is it so hard for you people to believe we were created before we came to this earth? We were. And so was Christ...by His Father. What's harder to conceive is that Christ created Himself and that Christ is talking TO himself when He refers or speaks to "The Father". To me, that doesn't make any sense. But, I respect what you believe. Since you don't believe that the Bible has been altered by evil men, you only look at the word of the law, and not the Spirit of the law. If you continue that way, you will go around in circles for the rest of your life.... always arguing about what this or what that meant and uncertain who is right.
It is written in our LDS scriptures..how to receive divine revelation. I have received that concerning the Book of Mormon. I know that it's not from Satan, because of what is contained in the scriptures... it is consistent with the spirit in which Christ operates as well...not Satan. Satan is deceitful and will reward you nothing. He certainly wouldn't WANT me to live my life the way I'm living it. He would want me to "eat, drink, and be merry". He would want me to accept all manner of evil including Homo-sexuality, drugs, pornography, lying, cheating, being unkind, coveting, etc...
I thought you said your God was all powerful and created all things....including Joseph Smith. But, you indicated that "the father of lies" created him. You have obviously obtained anti-Mormon literature that is authored by evil men. If I hadn't been where I've been and had the experiences that I've had, I might believe it too. Thanks,
[I responded:] Did I ever say Christ created Himself? For Christians, He's just as much God as His Father and the Holy Spirit, and there's never been a time when the Son wasn't the Son, and the Father wasn't the Father. In Mormonism there is, since the Father had to get married, become a god, and then impregnate His wife to produce a Son. If that's what you believe, then you cheapen Christ to make Him a creation prior to this earth. By definition, you don't believe that Christ created the planet He was born on as a spirit-child, and you don't even think that He created His spirit-grandfather's planet, or if He had an uncle who became a god for some other planet, you don't believe Christ created that world. So admit it, Christ did NOT create all worlds according to Mormonism. You already admitted that He didn't create certain things like us and Lucifer, since we all are younger brothers and sisters of Christ. So what's the big deal about admitting that your Christ didn't create some worlds? Christians on the other hand believe that "literally" all things exist by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, since they all go to make up the only Being of God there is (Isa. 43:10, 44:6, 8). That doesn't mean that the Son is the Father. I've never said that. So you totally misunderstand my view of the Trinity. The persons of God are distinct, but inseparable. So they aren't a team of separate gods like Mormonism teaches.
When I was speaking of Satan being the Father of Joseph, I wasn't speaking of him being his creator. There are different ways of using the term "Father". James and John were the "sons of thunder". Does that mean that thunder created them? When Jesus tells the Jews that their father is the devil (Jn. 8:44), does that mean that the devil created them?
The only reason this all is so difficult for you to see is because your father is the devil and he's blinded you to be more in love with your cult than you are the truth. Your friend, Rob