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Glenn Beck and Mormonism
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Rob Sivulka meeting Glenn Beck
Rob –
I wanted to get your take on this – and Beck in general. Comment when/if you have a chance.
Thanks, Bro!
!Here is a copy of the link with Mormons calling mainstream Christians to repentance...I thought you would be interested.
[I replied:] Please see this MRM article on "Questions for Glenn Beck."
Here's a Discussion thread on MormonInfo.org on this topic since it's so hot.
The best and worst thing about Beck is that he causes attention to Mormonism. It's great when Mormonism is in the news, since my site gets hit quite a bit. But of course for those who won't think critically, many are going to give Mormonism a pass and may even convert.
As for Moore, overall I enjoyed and agreed with the article. But I really don't know what he's talking about with liberation theology on the right. This is just a distortion of what liberation theology is, which by definition is leftist. Even if it's the case that the right wants a "golden calf, to represent religion and to remind us of all the economic security we had in Egypt," I don't know what sense it makes to call that lib. theology.
Further, I don't think that many solidly right *simply* (which seems to be Moore's implication) want a "civil religion" as Abraham Lincoln advocated. Even I don't have a problem with solid Christians going on Beck's show to call Americans back to "In God We Trust." I think it's great when all the religions can get together to beat up on secularism and promote traditional values found in different religious expressions. The problem comes when religious distinctions are blurred and everyone begins to think that there really is no true God that excludes other religious expressions of Himself. This is what happens in our day when religious pluralism rules. So how to counteract that perception is not always clear to me, but one thing I don't think is good is when everyone gets together for an inter-faith worship service.
I'll probably add more thoughts to my Discussion page as I continue to add to it. Let me know your thoughts and I'll add them as well.
Your bro,R
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Hey, how are you combating the 'Beck' problem? I have to many "friends" who sing his praises because he speaks of 'god'. I have presented truth to them but as usual am labeled a 'hater' (which I don't mind). Any advice is appreciated.
[I replied:] Give them www.MormonInfo.org. Any time Mormonism is in the news, our site gets hit big time! It's really being hit big time now due to Beck.
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Glenn Beck an Unlikely Mormon
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At rally, Beck positions himself as new leader for Christian conservatives
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Eric Barger's An Open Letter Concerning Glenn Beck
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Dr. Jim Garlow, Evangelicals and Glenn Beck
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Concering Rob Sivulka's meeting with Glenn Beck, a friend wrote: Great [question] for Beck Rob. Have written him numbers of times--especially when he said he would eat his chocolate cake on the air when Mitt Romney lost out to McCain. He really knows little of LDS doctrine-he s basically a smug-content convert via his aggresssive wife who dragged him out of alcoholism.
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Rob, That is awesome how you approached Glenn Beck directly regarding an area of Mormonsim so closely connected with another area of his expertise. Rock on, brother.
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Art Vanick, Glenn Beck--The New Face of Mormonism?
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Video--Beck's statement on grace, works, salvation, and the perverted gospel of liberation theology
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Jn. 8:24[: Unless you believe that I Am, you will die in your sins.]
The issue is deeper than whether Beck accepts the atonement... even if it is sufficient for his salvation. But I'm always open to Beck not really understanding what Mormonism teaches about Jesus.
Rob Sivulka
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as far as Glen Beck ...."But I'm always open to Beck not really understanding what Mormonism teaches about Jesus"
Ummm I think if you look at how highly educated and thorough he is on every subject he presents (to his credit)
I have a SERIOULSLY HARD TIME BELIEVING HE DOESN'T KNOW MORMON DOCTRINE EXTREMELY WELL !!!
seriously Rob... the guy has to deal with facts all the time or else he would get crucified from the left
I know he is crucified , but usually because they hate HIM, not for what he has actually presented
You can believe he is a dumb dumb about the Mormon Jesus, I PREFER TO THINK HE IS VERY SLY AND HE KNOWS EXACTLY
WHAT HE IS DOING. MY REASONS BEING.. HOW INTELLEGENT HE IS
AND I HEARD HIM THE OTHER DAY SAY ON FOX THAT "GOD SENT US DOWN TO THIS
EARTH WITH A MISSION... BLAH BLAH" I immediately thought well , My GOD didn't "sent me down" from nowhere !!!
My GOD formed me in my mothers womb. I have heard him slip in other mormon doctrine stuff...
Listen carefully and you will hear the subtitles of what he really believes. I am not buying the ignorance thing.
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Are you listening to Glenn Beck this morning/afternoon ? He has been talking about faith and his Mormon faith. He just mentioned about how Mormons were murdered and persecuted. I wonder if he knows about the Mountain Meadows Massacre... What do you think he is up to with all the faith talk he's been doing ?
[I replied:] I don't pretend to understand what's going on in his head. I do know that it will confuse a lot of people, but a lot of other people are coming to my site to find out what up with Mormonism.
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I just listended to Glen Becks whole thing (youtube)
on the plan of salvation and what he said about grace and the atonement
he is a deciever of the Highest order in my opinion and Christians are totally being duped by him
the fact that he did his whole "traditional Christianity has always believed salvation is by GRACE ... AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO
MERIT IT.. NOT ONE GOOD DEED..." etc.... and then hear comes the detination ...
HE WENT RIGHT INTO..(the pathetic) STANDARD MORMON ARGUEMENT (James 2) THAT MORMONS USE TO REFUTE
SALVATION BY GRACE ALONE
he did his whole diatribe on James 2 with such passion, fantastic !!!
yep yer right Glen, your salvation (resurrection in mormonism) is absolutely free and everybody gets a measure of glory without merit
sooo true, REALLY THIS GUY IS GOOD !!!
you will never convince me he doesn't know exactly what he is doing
"... THEREFORE IT IS NO GREAT THING IF HIS MINISTERS TRANSFORM THEMSELVES INTO MINISTERS OF RIGTEOUSNESS
WHOSE END SHALL BE ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS"
HE'S GOOD AT IT ...he knows exactly what traditional Christianity is and that's why he started with that (for lip service) and went right into James 2
STUPENDOUS !!!
[I replied:] But his explanation of James 2 is even in line with what we believe. Works are a demonstration of one's faith.
[She replied:] i think it is a deception ... yes it is in line with what we believe, I heard him say it demonstrates ones FAITH but there is no way you can tell me a mormon does not beleive he has to DO works to get to the celestial kingdom, it is not a faith ONLY thing... I think he says the right words at times in order to apease both mormons and christians but his real fruit (which is hard to detect) is on his web site, testimony, etc
Christians who look deeper into what his real fruit is, find out the end of his message leads one to Mormonism not to Jesus
so at heart, I think he is a hardcore Mormon with a really good play on words ... the guy is highly intellegent for sure
look at his feet not just his words ... he marches into a mormon church every sunday
there is no way if he is truly regenerate he will be able to stay in the mormon church for long
THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL CONVICT THE DAYLIGHTS OUT OF HIM !!!
the LORD is jealous over his own and HE will go after Glen and give him a spanking
I pray this is the case..
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I didn’t watch it, really, but caught a few minutes. Apparently he’s starting to sneak Mormon apologetics in the show. He referred to some Native American artifact that supposedly displayed block Hebrew lettering. Do you know anything about this? (I’m guessing you do.) Anyway, this might be a good thing for you to discuss on your site, and make sure you put Beck’s name all over in the meta-tags.
[I replied:] I know that he talks often of the great war in heaven and how Satan wanted to take away our agency, and Beck acts like we all should know what he's talking about.
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Spured by the Glenn Beck show and the challenge of a friend I did some snooping. Well, there seems to be Hebrew--old hebrew writing--in America. It doesn't exactly tie into the BOM history, but it far from refutes it. Here are two link that I found : [here and here.]
Comments?
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Michael Lynch, Glenn Beck’s Excellent Pseudohistorical Adventure Continues
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Wiki on Bat Creek Inscription, Los Lunas Decalogue Stone, and Newark Holy Stones,
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WORLDVIEW MATTERS WITH BRANNON HOWSE
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Hey I was SOOOOO pumped about the question that Brian suggested you ask Glenn Beck about the United Order and socialism! Very insightful and very appropriate given Beck's conservatism. I am actively praying for Glenn Beck and this gives me yet another point to bring before the King.
...Thinking of Beck again, there is much about Glenn that I admire. I actually like him as a person and while his innate passion makes him highly susceptible to the emotional substantiations of Mormonism, he could be a powerful witness for the true Jesus of the Bible if he aimed his investigative drive at the LDS church and the Bible. So I pray that God meets him on another road to Damascus.
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I enjoy Glenn Beck's program, but I have to admit it burst my bubble a little to find out that he was lds. It's disappointing when a conservative talk show host allegedly searching for truth won't search for the real TRUTH about his own religion.
Just a thought.
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I just watched the 5 PM Eastern Fox News show of Glenn Beck on July 13th. If you get this in time, you'll want to DVR or watch the late rerun of this show which comes on at 2 PM Eastern. He's talking about Black Liberation Theology, but he's also talking about how all Christians hold to salvation by grace and how it's unmerited. He goes on to affirm this as a Mormon. He's basically doing a theology lesson, but I think he's going to confuse a ton of people on Mormonism's position on grace and the atonement.
He attacks Obama, Jim Wallis, Jeremiah Wright, James Cone's, etc. collective salvation as a perversion of Christ's salvation. So if a Mormon can attack one's view of salvation, there shouldn't be any problem with us attacking the Mormon view of salvation!
Rob Sivulka
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I have to disagree with you on one point. I don't think he confused anyone as he came right out and said that it was traditional Christianity's viewpoint, not Mormonism's, that he was teaching. Personally if he holds to that viewpoint than more power to him. Not every Mormon believes in the LDS doctrines regarding salvation. I know I accepted them at first but then after reading the Bible I started to believe in Grace and eventually the Lord led me out of the LDS Church.
Let me say something on the program in general. He hit the nail on the head. Liberation theology and the social justice gospel are bad news. I am not saying that churches should not feed the hungry, clothe those that need it and help those in need. That is different than the social justice theology that a lot of churches teach. It seems that the churches that teach a social justice theology fail to teach that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven and seem to be so open minded to other religion's teachings that one wonders why they even bother calling themselves Christian anymore.
My own denomination has the same problem. Some conservative congregations are fine but the liberal ones embrace just about everything to the point where anyone can believe anything and still be United Methodist.
I am glad that Beck said what he did. Yes, the Romans, not the Jews, killed Jesus but it was a Jewish mob that demanded it and Pilate caved into their demands so that they would not riot. That isn't anti-semitism at all but just plain historical fact.
It is nice to see someone isn't afraid to take on Obama and his people. I will be happy when Obama loses in November of 2012. I may just go out to dinner to celebrate that night.
[I replied:] Ya, of course I think Liberation Theology is bad news. The problem is that Beck represents Mormonism. He specifically went out of his way to address his belief in the atonement as a Mormon and tied that in with his view of salvation by grace alone. Who knows if Beck would spin it to mean that he was simply talking about resurrection rather than getting into the Celestial Kingdom? But there's no doubt from everyone else I've talked to about it that Beck is going to confuse a lot of people concerning Mormonism and grace. Who knows if he really just doesn't know about official LDS on this point or not? He does a great job politically, but obviously not in representing Mormon theology.
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Briefly, I was raised in a very liberal church and never heard about Jesus. Everything Beck is saying about the liberal churches is correct but I agree with Rob -- that Beck is confusing the Average Joe about Mormonism's real doctrines. It is the hope of some of us in pastoral leadership here in Salt Lake that he is going to read enough of Jonathan Edwards' and others of Edwards' ilk that he can have a conversion to Christ on a foundation those preachers laid centuries ago.
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Again, you and you new family are such an inspiration!
I had just watched an episode of Glenn Beck this last week. He aggravates the heck out of me because he's always talking in "Mormon Code" as I call it. He'll reference "former Agricultural Secretary, Ezra Taft Benson" quotes and books...which of course to LDS is "PAAAAY ATTENTION...THE PROPHET SPOKE THIS..." and just this week he was talking about the two political parties and made reference to the beginnings of the "war in heaven" and said "Now where have I heard this before?!... WE'LL SAVE ALL OF THEM, just follow MY plan..." he was quite excited. It WAS interesting, though, he referenced a different author.
...here is the link. He credited Saul Allinsky as the author.
But it is straight out of the temple version of the creation of the world. Sigh.
Hope you got through! I think that was a great question to ask! Hope it does cause divine discomfort!
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Is Glenn Beck's rise good for Mormonism?
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LDS Discussion--LDS Glenn Beck assails Obama's Christianity
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Thanks for posting my link. With regard to those who posted at your site and said that Beck doesn't really know much about Mormonism, they obviously have not visited Beck's website. It is Mormonism in a nutshell, complete with articles on Agency, Adam's Fall, the church in ancient times, and the church in modern times, as well as invitations to people who are curious about Mormonism to either email Beck or other Mormons, and by all means to go to the LDS website. Believe me, he knows exactly what he is doing.
Art
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Glenn Beck and Mormonism
Glenn Beck is smart, clean-cut, and has a bright smile that presents him as a likeable person—as in one who would make a good neighbor. This article is not about Beck’s demeanor, program, or his political viewpoints. It is about Mormonism and how Mr. Beck, who became a Latter-day Saint in 1999, is promoting it little by little.
Until recently, he kept it private. After all, too much, too fast, may turn off his large Christian following. But this is where the confusion begins. His Christian terminology prevents viewers from seeing the difference between Mormonism and Christianity. Beck, however, knows these differences well enough to disguise them semantically by equivocating the terms.1
Straight up, Mormonism is polytheistic with many gods2 that are led by a triad of three gods. This is the Mormon redefinition of the Trinity in Christianity. A polytheistic triad of three gods is not the same as a monotheistic Trinity of three Persons within one eternal God.
On Jesus, the Latter-day Saints teach that He was born of God the Father and his goddess wife, Mother God, in heaven, among billions of other spirit-babies.3 One of Christ’s brothers in heaven was Lucifer, who was the second spirit-child born from these gods.4 Everyone else was born later in the Mormon preexistence. When it came time for the gods to choose a savior for Earth, there was a contest in heaven between Lucifer and Jesus. Both offered a council of gods an earthly plan of salvation.5
The gods chose Jesus’ plan, which caused Lucifer to rebel and take a third of the spirits into battle against another third with Jesus leading them. The last third was lesser valiant in battle, so they were cursed by God to come to earth with black skin. This is the Mormon explanation for the Negro population on planet earth,6 which is why blacks could not hold the priesthood for the first 147 years of the church’s history.
The Mormon Jesus was born through God the Father, an exalted man in heaven, who came to earth and had sexual relations with Mary to “sire” Jesus.7 As Jesus matured, he got married to at least two or possibly three women before he was crucified. Like Joseph Smith, their founder, their writings cast Jesus as a polygamist. Christ also bore children through his earthly wives.8 Then He paved the way for all worthy Mormons to become gods themselves.9 Beck believes that he can become a god some day, and his wife a goddess, if they adhere faithfully to Mormonism.
These things Beck will not discuss, but this is raw Mormonism. The only part of Mormonism that sounds like the biblical Jesus is His miracles, death, and resurrection. Still, this is altered too, e.g., Christ’s blood cannot wipe away all sins, but your own blood can atone for some.10
Biblically, Christians must reject these teachings and stick with what Scripture states. When God said that He is the only God existing, then that means there are no other “gods” in Heaven.11 Scripture also tells us that there are Three distinct Persons as the one true God.12 The Father is God,13 the Son is God,14 the Holy Spirit is God,15 and yet there is One God.16 Since there is only one true God, then men cannot become gods, as Mormons also teach.17 The Bible says that God is eternal,18 invisible,19 and Spirit.20 This is the God of the Bible, which stands in contrast to that of Mormonism.
~ Kurt Van Gorden
Utah Gospel Mission
P.O. Box 780 Victorville, CA 92393
© 2010 Kurt Van Gorden
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1 Beck does not claim to be an authority on Mormon doctrine, so the quotations below are from General Authorities in his church.
2 Doctrine and Covenants 121:32
3 James Talmage, Articles of Faith, 443; Parley Pratt, The Seer, 158.
4 Articles of Faith, p. 472; Milton Hunter, Gospel Through the Ages, 15; Journal of Discourses, 5:179.
5 The official Website of the Mormon Church (LDS.org), states: “President George Q. Cannon, commenting on Satan’s title as a son of the morning, said: ‘Some have called him the son of the morning, but here it is a son of the morning—one among many, doubtless. This angel was a mighty personage, without doubt. The record that is given to us concerning him clearly shows that he occupied a very high position; that he was thought a great deal of, and that he was mighty in his sphere, so much so that when the matter was debated concerning the earth and the plan of salvation, he was of sufficient importance to have a plan, which he proposed as the plan by which this earth should be peopled and the inhabitants thereof redeemed. His plan, however, was not accepted; but it was so plausible and so attractive that out of the whole hosts of heaven one-third accepted his plan and were willing to cast their lot with him. [Moses 4:1–4; D&C 29:36–37.] Now, the difference between Jesus and Lucifer was this: Jesus was willing to submit to the Father.’ (In Millennial Star, 5 Sept. 1895, pp. 563–64).” The Doctrine and Covenants Institute Student Manual, Section 76, The Vision of the Degrees of Glory [accessed 09/06/2010].
6 Bruce R. McConkie, wrote, “Those who were less valiant in the pre-existence and who thereby had certain spiritual restrictions imposed upon them during mortality are known to us as the Negroes.” Mormon Doctrine, 527, (1966 edition).
7 Mormons do not use the term “sex,” but they mean the same thing with “sired,” (Teachings of the Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, 7); and James Talmage called it “celestial sireship,” Jesus the Christ, 81. Bruce R. McConkie was much milder by emphasizing the word “literal” Son of God, but he meant the same act., “Christ was begotten by an immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers.” Mormon Doctrine, 547.
8 Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, 2:81-82.
9 Doctrine and Covenants 132: 17-20, 37.
10 Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:135; 3:94; Mormon Doctrine, 92. [This contradicts Col. 2:14; Heb. 10:12-18.]
11 Isaiah 43:10.
12 Matthew 28:19.
13 Romans 1:7.
14 John 20:28.
15 Acts 5:3,4.
16 Deuteronomy 6:4.
17 Isaiah 44:8.
18 Deuteronomy. 33:27.
19 Colossians 1:15; Hebrews 11:27.
20 John 4:24; 2 Corinthians 3:17.
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Film Review of An Unlikely Mormon: The Conversion Story of Glenn Beck
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Kevin James Bywater, Beck & Calling
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Is Glenn Beck Attempting to Fulfill the Mormon 'White Horse Prophecy'?
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Chuck Colson, Point of View: Glenn Beck rally—Which God should we turn to?
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Glenn Beck Answers Mormon Myths 9/6/12
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